Thank you for corrections @Ic3Rabbit.
You are absolutely right.
To explain I had in mind ice dancing in 90s…for example watching Rahkamo & Kokko‘s FD in 1995 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsirSW8E0yo (lifts at 1:37, 2:38, 3:23, 4:22), Grishuk & Platov‘s FD in 1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN34Qz35zgA (lifts at 1:10, 2:22, 4:25).
I didn‘t had an idea that they needed to train lifts entry + position + exit for weeks off ice. I think they could try few times off ice, but then tried it immediately on ice. Correct me if I am wrong.
While today‘s lifts… with entry for example lady rolling around man‘s head and neck… Tessa & Scott's Rotational Lift in 2013 FD - https://youtu.be/8ByL0X4SAA4?t=254 or Curved Lift in 2010 OD - https://youtu.be/c6mge7uZbLo?t=94 ... Madison & Evan‘s lifts in 2019 FD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKs135q0Yr8 (lifts at 1:36, 1:52, 3:10, 4:04)...it gives me idea that entry must be trained if not for weeks to make it safe, positions are much more difficult to balance. Some kind of positions and exits can be done after some days, but it needs another weeks to make it look elegant.
I didn’t see Kaitlyn & Jean-Luc‘s lifts from this season yet, so I can use last season‘s lifts only. Their Curved + Curved Lift was very difficult, changing edge being in Spread Eagle and having Kaitlyn standing on Jean-Luc’s thigh, it is very difficult to balance. She needs to be greatly strengthened and don‘t move not to change his centre of balance. Straight Line Lift needs to be balanced greatly as well not to lose speed.
If I imagine I would take one couple with average lift quality, I can imagine they would be able to learn Finish lifts quite quickly, for Russian lifts with lady almost fully on man‘s arms - lady would need to be very thin otherwise these lifts would not be a good idea. I can no way imagine average lifters to be able to execute Canadian‘s and American‘s lifts after few days, I think it would rather need few months and some of those lifts would not be in their capabilities at all. That is why I wrote that lifts from old times didn’t need to be practised so much off ice.
I suppose that lift's specialists have rules for lifts... to make them SAFE and follow WRIGHT TECHNIQUE, feel free to correct me if I am wrong. You probably cooperated with lift’s specialists in past.
Me as a rehabilitation specialist, I know that dancer needs 1) right posture (right position of body‘s segments) to be able to activate deep muscle stabilizing system correctly.
After it dancer needs to 2) do exercises to strengthen core and limbs (which exercises exactly are the best - you as a professional dancer know much more about this part than me, I can only correct whether you are doing exercises correctly = right posture with right muscle activation). I don’t whether Kaitlyn or other dancers had some tutorials about strengthening exercises? Holly Harris showed a part of her preparation in ISU Instagram, if I remember correctly.
Then dancer needs to 3) know basic principles of lift technique, which you were visibly taught. Kaitlyn is mentioning timing in lifts, it belongs into right lift technique in my opinion. I am not sure that all dancers knows basic principles…
If dancer misses some of these parts, lift is not stable, his / her maximal strength is not used. Wrong posture leads dancers to overtraining his / her muscles and joints = which leads to injuries...it is kind of closed circle. But that is something what should be common knowledge as well, no?
Of course a detailed examination in person is needed to get precise picture of all posture / muscle / joint condition. But bigger patologies are visible even during dancer‘s programs.
With spread of acrobatic lifts…
...in past many Russian male dancers were doing part of lady‘s job throwing them around themselves instead of lady doing it mainly herself
...especially Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov or Victoria Sinitsina & Ruslan Zhiganshin – Elena, Nikita and Ruslan had bad strengthening, posture and lift technique. It caused more dangerous moments - for example combo lift in 2011 FD with Elena hitting Nikita‘s head and neck - https://youtu.be/ecWgqEZfkow?t=216 , unintentionally sitting on his neck at Euros gala 2014 - https://youtu.be/I6H6wNXSw9U?t=169 . Victoria & Ruslan – in Straight Line Lift Ruslan is jerking his back in entry, creating kyphosis during the lift, shoulders wrong, rotating chest - https://youtu.be/jKkYlr6qdjQ?t=156 . After change of partners both couples were fighting with lifts, falling in their opening seasons. It took few years till both couples improved in lift technique and strengthening, all that wrong technique leads to injuries. If you think they had knowledge, how do you explain them doing all those sort of mistakes?
...Lilah Fear & Lewis Gibson - Lilah is not well strengthened (I believe she is doing exercises quite a lot but her posture and deep stabilizing system are not OK), she is not working to get into the position - Lewis is doing her job in these moments - rotating around his head, rotating on his shoulder - everything done by him, which is wrong
...and some other dance couples have troubles also…
Your post led me to look at few other dance couples, both seniors and juniors…
...Daria Grimm & Michail Savitskiy‘s FD – lady is not strengthened at all – core strengthening is missing, thanks to wrong posture she cannot have deep musle stabilizing system activated...boy is not bad, core strengthening is not that strong, but it is normal in juniors + I think he is that type of dancer who needs more time to built strength. With lady getting grown-up body and not correcting these issues, the couple will have troubles in lifts. These issues are also the reason why is lady instable in steps.
...Laurence Fournier Beaudry & Nikolaj Sorensen‘s FD – good strengthening (with exception of Nikolaj’s Curved Lift), good lift technique. From rehab point of view: 1) in Combo Lift – Stationary Lift – with Laurence being down Nikolaj does not have well centered shoulders and head‘s position backwards and to the side is not ideal as well. 2) The third jump in Choreographic Assisted Jump – while lifting Laurence Nikolaj is using more move of his back backwards instead of deep knee going into less deep knee movement, thanks to this wrong technique in lifting he overworks his back. 3) Curved lift – from side it looks like Nikolaj‘s lumbar part of back can be in bigger lordosis, which would mean he is not strengthened well + wrong deep system activation + he is once again overworking his lumbar spine and lumbar muscles. His shoulder blades are not centered, they are moved into adduction.
...Leah Neset & Artem Markelov‘s FD – they know something about the right technique, but they both have (she visibly, he most likely – too loose shirt) wrong posture, they both need better strengthening, lady tries to get into positions herself, lady does technical mistake in both Combo Lift entry + lift in Choreo Character Step Sequence – she always starts movement with lumbar part of spine moving backwards, correctly spine must stay straight, then she must strengthen, then she must go into Lift entry not curving spine or back. Not correcting these issues...with grown-up bodies lifts will be trouble. All years with these issues both of them will build health troubles.
So once again if common knowledge is spread among dancers, why are more couples not following it? They certainly don’t want to get injured. And why is Kaitlyn pointing that timing is important, not weight – it should be common knowledge as well, no? In my opinion if she mentions it, she was maybe taught the opossite originally…
You are absolutely right.
To explain I had in mind ice dancing in 90s…for example watching Rahkamo & Kokko‘s FD in 1995 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsirSW8E0yo (lifts at 1:37, 2:38, 3:23, 4:22), Grishuk & Platov‘s FD in 1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN34Qz35zgA (lifts at 1:10, 2:22, 4:25).
I didn‘t had an idea that they needed to train lifts entry + position + exit for weeks off ice. I think they could try few times off ice, but then tried it immediately on ice. Correct me if I am wrong.
While today‘s lifts… with entry for example lady rolling around man‘s head and neck… Tessa & Scott's Rotational Lift in 2013 FD - https://youtu.be/8ByL0X4SAA4?t=254 or Curved Lift in 2010 OD - https://youtu.be/c6mge7uZbLo?t=94 ... Madison & Evan‘s lifts in 2019 FD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKs135q0Yr8 (lifts at 1:36, 1:52, 3:10, 4:04)...it gives me idea that entry must be trained if not for weeks to make it safe, positions are much more difficult to balance. Some kind of positions and exits can be done after some days, but it needs another weeks to make it look elegant.
I didn’t see Kaitlyn & Jean-Luc‘s lifts from this season yet, so I can use last season‘s lifts only. Their Curved + Curved Lift was very difficult, changing edge being in Spread Eagle and having Kaitlyn standing on Jean-Luc’s thigh, it is very difficult to balance. She needs to be greatly strengthened and don‘t move not to change his centre of balance. Straight Line Lift needs to be balanced greatly as well not to lose speed.
If I imagine I would take one couple with average lift quality, I can imagine they would be able to learn Finish lifts quite quickly, for Russian lifts with lady almost fully on man‘s arms - lady would need to be very thin otherwise these lifts would not be a good idea. I can no way imagine average lifters to be able to execute Canadian‘s and American‘s lifts after few days, I think it would rather need few months and some of those lifts would not be in their capabilities at all. That is why I wrote that lifts from old times didn’t need to be practised so much off ice.
I suppose that lift's specialists have rules for lifts... to make them SAFE and follow WRIGHT TECHNIQUE, feel free to correct me if I am wrong. You probably cooperated with lift’s specialists in past.
Me as a rehabilitation specialist, I know that dancer needs 1) right posture (right position of body‘s segments) to be able to activate deep muscle stabilizing system correctly.
After it dancer needs to 2) do exercises to strengthen core and limbs (which exercises exactly are the best - you as a professional dancer know much more about this part than me, I can only correct whether you are doing exercises correctly = right posture with right muscle activation). I don’t whether Kaitlyn or other dancers had some tutorials about strengthening exercises? Holly Harris showed a part of her preparation in ISU Instagram, if I remember correctly.
Then dancer needs to 3) know basic principles of lift technique, which you were visibly taught. Kaitlyn is mentioning timing in lifts, it belongs into right lift technique in my opinion. I am not sure that all dancers knows basic principles…
If dancer misses some of these parts, lift is not stable, his / her maximal strength is not used. Wrong posture leads dancers to overtraining his / her muscles and joints = which leads to injuries...it is kind of closed circle. But that is something what should be common knowledge as well, no?
Of course a detailed examination in person is needed to get precise picture of all posture / muscle / joint condition. But bigger patologies are visible even during dancer‘s programs.
With spread of acrobatic lifts…
...in past many Russian male dancers were doing part of lady‘s job throwing them around themselves instead of lady doing it mainly herself
...especially Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov or Victoria Sinitsina & Ruslan Zhiganshin – Elena, Nikita and Ruslan had bad strengthening, posture and lift technique. It caused more dangerous moments - for example combo lift in 2011 FD with Elena hitting Nikita‘s head and neck - https://youtu.be/ecWgqEZfkow?t=216 , unintentionally sitting on his neck at Euros gala 2014 - https://youtu.be/I6H6wNXSw9U?t=169 . Victoria & Ruslan – in Straight Line Lift Ruslan is jerking his back in entry, creating kyphosis during the lift, shoulders wrong, rotating chest - https://youtu.be/jKkYlr6qdjQ?t=156 . After change of partners both couples were fighting with lifts, falling in their opening seasons. It took few years till both couples improved in lift technique and strengthening, all that wrong technique leads to injuries. If you think they had knowledge, how do you explain them doing all those sort of mistakes?
...Lilah Fear & Lewis Gibson - Lilah is not well strengthened (I believe she is doing exercises quite a lot but her posture and deep stabilizing system are not OK), she is not working to get into the position - Lewis is doing her job in these moments - rotating around his head, rotating on his shoulder - everything done by him, which is wrong
...and some other dance couples have troubles also…
Your post led me to look at few other dance couples, both seniors and juniors…
...Daria Grimm & Michail Savitskiy‘s FD – lady is not strengthened at all – core strengthening is missing, thanks to wrong posture she cannot have deep musle stabilizing system activated...boy is not bad, core strengthening is not that strong, but it is normal in juniors + I think he is that type of dancer who needs more time to built strength. With lady getting grown-up body and not correcting these issues, the couple will have troubles in lifts. These issues are also the reason why is lady instable in steps.
...Laurence Fournier Beaudry & Nikolaj Sorensen‘s FD – good strengthening (with exception of Nikolaj’s Curved Lift), good lift technique. From rehab point of view: 1) in Combo Lift – Stationary Lift – with Laurence being down Nikolaj does not have well centered shoulders and head‘s position backwards and to the side is not ideal as well. 2) The third jump in Choreographic Assisted Jump – while lifting Laurence Nikolaj is using more move of his back backwards instead of deep knee going into less deep knee movement, thanks to this wrong technique in lifting he overworks his back. 3) Curved lift – from side it looks like Nikolaj‘s lumbar part of back can be in bigger lordosis, which would mean he is not strengthened well + wrong deep system activation + he is once again overworking his lumbar spine and lumbar muscles. His shoulder blades are not centered, they are moved into adduction.
...Leah Neset & Artem Markelov‘s FD – they know something about the right technique, but they both have (she visibly, he most likely – too loose shirt) wrong posture, they both need better strengthening, lady tries to get into positions herself, lady does technical mistake in both Combo Lift entry + lift in Choreo Character Step Sequence – she always starts movement with lumbar part of spine moving backwards, correctly spine must stay straight, then she must strengthen, then she must go into Lift entry not curving spine or back. Not correcting these issues...with grown-up bodies lifts will be trouble. All years with these issues both of them will build health troubles.
So once again if common knowledge is spread among dancers, why are more couples not following it? They certainly don’t want to get injured. And why is Kaitlyn pointing that timing is important, not weight – it should be common knowledge as well, no? In my opinion if she mentions it, she was maybe taught the opossite originally…
