2019 Four Continents Free Dance

[Sabrina]

Honestly, Piper and Paul should have won the Free Dance. When C/B came after them, they looked a bit flat, though I agree they are excellent dancers. Anyway I am happy PxP get rid of that eternal 4th place. The funny thing was my Eurovision page froze right after H/D stationary lift,

 

[danse]

So I've taken about an hour pouring over all of the ISU ice dance handbooks, Q&As, and other rulebooks about stationary lifts, and well, there's very little that explains why Hubbell/Donohue received a Basic level for their first lift.

From my understanding and from what we can gather, it was called at Basic level because the lift travels across the ice instead of staying in one spot. However, there is nothing in the rulebook that says what is considered "stationary" and what isn't; that is, will it not count if the travel is about one foot away from the initial center? two feet? three? It's not defined anywhere

And there's nothing in the rulebooks and clarifications PDFs that says a stationary lift that travels should be called at Basic level. (In which case, there definitely needs to be a clarification somewhere.)

From my understanding, the first "stationary" lift travelled too much (you can see him move across the letters) and so it was not longer a stationary life but it didn't meet the required number of rotations to become a rotational lift, therefore it was basically invalidated as a base-level stationary lift.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Given what I saw today, one can only imagine the grisly horrors we have in store waiting for us. Yes judges, that was directed at you.

Now why can't I have this kind of ESP when it comes to winning lottery numbers?

 

[chuckm]

Honestly, Piper and Paul should have won the Free Dance. When C/B came after them, they looked a bit flat, though I agree they are excellent dancers. Anyway I am happy PxP get rid of that eternal 4th place. The funny thing was my Eurovision page froze right after H/D stationary lift,

C/B were more energized than I have ever seen them, and the audience oohed and aahed throughout their performance. The judges saw it that way, too. And G/P gave away a whole point by holding their rotational lift too long--that hurt because C/B already had higher BV and higher GOE; the deduction just added to the gap.

Compared to C/B's and P/G's program, W/P's was a snoozer.

 

[KMK0902]

And I want to add, that no matter how i like C/B programme, but she spent the time in the air like no one else.

Couldn't agree more. I was very surprised when they did not get any deductions for extended lifts...

 

[SarahSynchro]

Your posts are a fun, bright spot ... well, except when you push one of my buttons. But you have a wonderful gift of humor. I'm so sorry you had a rotten week, and I'm happy being here helped. Enjoy the Chips Ahoy!

Aww, thanks! I’m sure everyone’s been cheezed off at me at some point, it’s all good.

And yes, it was good ice cream, though I didn’t have as much as predicted. Maybe enough for one and a half bowls.

 

[draqq]

From my understanding, the first "stationary" lift travelled too much (you can see him move across the letters) and so it was not longer a stationary life but it didn't meet the required number of rotations to become a rotational lift, therefore it was basically invalidated as a base-level stationary lift.

My concern is that if it no longer counts as a stationary lift by definition, then it should be invalidated and receive no points... but yet it was given a Base value. But to the larger point, there's nothing in any ISU rulebook that says anything regarding what happens if a stationary lift travels and to what extent a stationary lift can travel before it's no longer stationary. So the assessment that the lift was called at Base value is completely made up as far as I know, and so H/D were penalized for an error that doesn't exist as an error by the current rules.

 

[Astrid56]

Couldn't agree more. I was very surprised when they did not get any deductions for extended lifts...

Maybe because that did not happen. :sarcasm:

 

[Nika09]

This isn't that shocking though. H/D have been saying all season they aren't paying attention to tech and focusing on GOE, well, that caught up to them. They have been openly talking about how they got around the tech panel all season and tonight it just wasn't in their favor.

Well, you can"t just ignore tech side to be focused on GOE"s. Especially in ID, where those two aspects as close as nowhere else.

 

[ManyCairns]

Piper and Paul were luminous and riveting. Lovely to see them on the podium.

 

[LisaS]

My concern is that if it no longer counts as a stationary lift by definition, then it should be invalidated and receive no points... but yet it was given a Base value. But to the larger point, there's nothing in any ISU rulebook that says anything regarding what happens if a stationary lift travels and to what extent a stationary lift can travel before it's no longer stationary. So the assessment that the lift was called at Base value is completely made up as far as I know, and so H/D were penalized for an error that doesn't exist as an error by the current rules.

I am not an expert but they were in a stationary lift in the first position. That position only warranted a base value. The other positions are what raise the levels but when he travelled they were no longer part of the stationary lift. Of course I could be wrong.

 

[chameleon]

So I've taken about an hour pouring over all of the ISU ice dance handbooks, Q&As, and other rulebooks about stationary lifts, and well, there's very little that explains why Hubbell/Donohue received a Basic level for their first lift.

From my understanding and from what we can gather, it was called at Basic level because the lift travels across the ice instead of staying in one spot. However, there is nothing in the rulebook that says what is considered "stationary" and what isn't; that is, will it not count if the travel is about one foot away from the initial center? two feet? three? It's not defined anywhere

And there's nothing in the rulebooks and clarifications PDFs that says a stationary lift that travels should be called at Basic level. (In which case, there definitely needs to be a clarification somewhere.)

Once they started travelling, the lift was no longer stationary and so the additional features stopped counting. They had just enough to count as a some kind of lift instead of getting it completely invalidated, but not enough for a real level. Honestly they're lucky the tech panel let the second half of their lift count as a fancy exit feature instead of Stationary B lift combined with Rotational B lift. Now that would have ripped their score to absolute shreds.

 

[Skater Boy]

I thought the first four teams were wondeful. I would have had a three way tie between Chock and Bates, Gilles and Porier and Weaver and Poje. C and B always bring on the drama; G and P's fs is divine, glorious and Weapo are understated sophistication which sadly can get lost. H/D wel are good skaters; just don't like their programm. But reall tese four teams are very very good. And these 4 teams set themselves up in the hunt for world silver and bronze but they will have to deal with the highlly rated and loved Italians and two Russian teams who keep leap frogging one another.

 

[cohen-esque]

A Stationary Lift which rotates must stop traveling by the completion of the first rotation. The Technical Panel will not start to count features for the Level until the couple rotates on the spot (if it is recognized as a Stationary Lift).

https://www.isu.org/docman-document...munications/17126-isu-communication-2164/file (p.7)

I’m not sure why people think that the ISU needs to define what counts as stationary: it means “stationary,” as in not traveling. But the team does get an allowance of one traveling rotation to get into the lift.

Anyways, if Zach was traveling while the other Level features were being performed, those features didn’t count at all.

 

[DSQ]

Hot take: Zach Donohue is the person people think Scott Moir is.

Okay next day now so I can ask since this must have passed me by, what kind of person did people think Scott Moir was?

 

[Alegria]

This isn't that shocking though. H/D have been saying all season they aren't paying attention to tech and focusing on GOE, well, that caught up to them. They have been openly talking about how they got around the tech panel all season and tonight it just wasn't in their favor.

And it's not like they were always perfect for good GOE. I mean, HUBBELL had problems with twizzles, but one judge gave them +5, and 4 judges +4.
Laurence almost fell performing sliding move, but still got +3 from 3 judges.
So why bother to dance clean if judges like you no matter what.

 

[LadyB]

I'm so glad that I don't do prediction games, mine would've been ruined either way

Mine are. Across the board

 

[lauravvv]

Couldn't agree more. I was very surprised when they did not get any deductions for extended lifts...

Ice dancers get deductions for separate extended lifts, not for being lifted a lot during the whole program which is what C/B are doing with the many transitional moves - small lifts.

I’m kinda glad this mostly passed me by. Bad sportsmanship is the most unappealing characteristic in an athlete.

Probably it passed you by because it's mostly an interpretation of Moir's character and of what was going on in his head by people who disliked them as a team because they were their favorite's rivals. It's so easy to ascribe things to someone depending on what you want to see.

As for Moir, in reality there was just one occassion where he spontaneously expressed his disappointment with the result in words after their skate - and that was in 2012. It and some D/W and P/C ubers dislike and desire to see V/M in a bad light made the legend that Moir was this arrogant and disrespectful jerk to grow and grow to a disproportionate amplitude and volume.

About Hubble and Donahue going after GOE rather than levels - according to TLS there was a meeting in London about how they wanted Ice Dancers to be more showy and dramatic even if it ment less precise footwork. That’s part of the reason why next year there is no pattern dance. I guess the judges revolted or just thought the error here was so huge even they couldn’t ignore it.

H/D's error was not in a footwork sequence, though. I doubt that the attitude towards lift, twizzle or spin mistakes is the same as it is towards imprecise footwork. All evedince says that it isn't. H/D (or, rather, Donohue) simply had not made that lift mistake before.

 

[litenkyckling]

I actually think that this was the tech panel doing their job - the head of the technical committee was the tech controller here and I would imagine that made all the difference? (This is just me speculating, obviously) but if I was on the tech committee I'd be pretty annoyed that levels don't seem to matter anymore and so I'd want to make a stand. I kind of think that its only fair that they are this harsh on some of the best teams in the world, especially when the competition was so tight. I think it'll be a lesson to every team out there - don't even think about leaving those levels behind.

 

[LadyB]

I've just realised that P&P have medalled in every competition they started so far this season! :hap93: