How many times has Mao been totally clean across a competition? My bet is very few, if any.
For the last time, this is a hypothetical thread. As in, what COULD happen if she WERE to skate completely clean? It doesn't matter how unlikely it is.
Yes, the mollycoddling of Mao's got to stop - "letting" her do 3As! In fact, all the other senior ladies should do one also, then how would she feel! Oh, wait... Actually, since so few ladies can do a 3Lz-3T consistently, maybe we shouldn't "let" any senior ladies do that either? I mean, why should ANY lady have any unfair advantage? Maybe everyone should just stick to doubles, and we can see who does those best, and all will be fair & square...
What about musicality? Some skaters just don't have any, poor things. Isn't that unfair on them? Let's get rid of the music also.
In fact - skip the jumps altogether! Let everyone skate the exact same thing - oh, we could call it... figures! Yes, let's put the figure back in figure skating, and let that be ALL that the skaters do. We can leave all the vulgar jumps & music to shows and such, and let the pure essence remain... "Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we Bruce? Members of the League of Shadows... " Oops! Did I let myself get carried away there? Well, never mind! In this thread - who will notice!
(Also, I wonder how many will think my post is 100% serious? Ah, sweet irony... )
Here I agree with you. The link to Yuna's score at Worlds-2013 indeed may count as another ridiculous excuse for "queeny" gold.Again, you have ignored my post entirely, and gave another ridiculous excuse.
I think this analysis is incomplete.
No, sweetheart. What is pathetic and extremele lame is your desperate attemp to 'tailor up' the real Yuna's skating at Worlds to the "planned" or "hypothetical" skating of Asada, but not to the real layout that she did. That's cheat and lie that you keep parading. Compare the hypothetical Mao with the hypothetical Yuna. Why do you all keep refusing doing that and always go back to Yuna's skate at Worlds-2013? Because in this case, if you finally play fair and compare the hypotheticl Mao with the hypothetical Yuna, you will have to increase Yuna's score as well. Then all your math will become void the same instant. Or are you saying that what Yuna showed us at Worlds with her juniorish combos is the maximum of her abilities? Ha! What a royalty. Incomplete analysis? Fine. Here I am. Yuna was 4th in BV at Worlds, i.e. off the podium, behind Mao and two yesterday-junior Gold and Li. She was pulled on the podium by GOE and PCS, the scenario that we have seen a lot with PChan. Moreover, she would be 4th in BV, which is the most objective factor in scoring, at Russian Junior Nationals as well. Lol. The Olympic champion can't challenge the stuff that three junior girls at RN had power and skills to perform. Her combo of three doubles was similar to the one (2T instead of 2Lo) that Chernyshova did, who was 8th (!) RJN, but unlike Yuna she did 3Lo-2T, which has a higher BV than Yuna's 3S-2T. And, in the sight of this juniorish layout of Yuna, your conditions for Mao to beat her is to go with the heck layout with 3A, 3F-3Lo, three jump combo with first triple, etc. How fair. And how rich of you to give Mao the chance to break 70 on PCS, while the hypothetical Yuna will have 75? 80?, since if the real one had 74 . It's exactly what happened with Chan more than once- the guys had to perform 3 quads, two 3A and still they couldn't beat the Canadian who had much easier layout, not mentioning that half of it he spent with his butt on the ice. Same with Yuna, just on a smaller scale. Way easier layout with poor BV got pulled on the top of the podium by GOE and PCS. Been there, seen that. :disapp:Asada was planning to do 3F+3Lo, 3Lo in Lp.
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I bet she will be able to break +70 in PCS if she goes clean
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And stop mocking people around. It's pathetic.
Here I agree with you. The link to Yuna's score at Worlds-2013 indeed may count as another ridiculous excuse for "queeny" gold.
No, sweetheart. What is pathetic and extremele lame is your desperate attemp to 'tailor up' the real Yuna's skating at Worlds to the "planned" or "hypothetical" skating of Asada, but not to the real layout that she did. That's cheat and lie that you keep parading. Compare the hypothetical Mao with the hypothetical Yuna. Why do you all keep refusing doing that and always go back to Yuna's skate at Worlds-2013? Because in this case, if you finally play fair and compare the hypotheticl Mao with the hypothetical Yuna, you will have to increase Yuna's score as well. Then all your math will become void the same instant. Or are you saying that what Yuna showed us at Worlds with her juniorish combos is the maximum of her abilities? Ha! What a royalty. Incomplete analysis? Fine. Here I am. Yuna was 4th in BV at Worlds, i.e. off the podium, behind Mao and two yesterday-junior Gold and Li. She was pulled on the podium by GOE and PCS, the scenario that we have seen a lot with PChan. Moreover, she would be 4th in BV, which is the most objective factor in scoring, at Russian Junior Nationals as well. Lol. The Olympic champion can't challenge the stuff that three junior girls at RN had power and skills to perform. Her combo of three doubles was similar to the one (2T instead of 2Lo) that Chernyshova did, who was 8th (!) RJN, but unlike Yuna she did 3Lo-2T, which has a higher BV than Yuna's 3S-2T. And, in the sight of this juniorish layout of Yuna, your conditions for Mao to beat her is to go with the heck layout with 3A, 3F-3Lo, three jump combo with first triple, etc. How fair. And how rich of you to give Mao the chance to break 70 on PCS, while the hypothetical Yuna will have 75? 80?, since if the real one had 74 . It's exactly what happened with Chan more than once- the guys had to perform 3 quads, two 3A and still they couldn't beat the Canadian who had much easier layout, not mentioning that half of it he spent with his butt on the ice. Same with Yuna, just on a smaller scale. Way easier layout with poor BV got pulled on the top of the podium by GOE and PCS. Been there, seen that. :disapp:
There were practical reasons for such changes that have nothing to do with Yuna or anyone else.
I beg to differ. With any rule changes it is should always be controversial. There are those who lose out, and those who gain considerable advantages. While it can always be justified why such for the rule change occur in the first place, but it is the totallity of these effects, and the motivation behind of these rule changes should be under greater scrutiny. Timing is everything, the effect on the major stake holders of the sport holds the clue.
Put it this way, rules changes implies there are something wrong with the old rules in the first place, and tomorow's on going changing rules can mean there's something wrong with today's rules. However in reality, it doesn't make better skating, it can however manipulate the favourable outcome of the potential winners.
Ask yourself, if there's no Mao or Yuna in the ladies do you really think the culmination of these particular sets of rule changes would have occurred at that particular time regardless? Similarly, if Mao was born in Korea, and Yuna is born in Japan, would the same rules changes occur in that exact sequence and timeline? That is perhaps a fun hypothetical question worth asking.
That is what I love about Yuna's recent triumph, where every critic has practically counted her out, yet she came back with unfathomable self believe and do what all champions should able do, prove their critics wrong. Forget the Superstar, the uber nickname 'Queen'. She is a simple girl who work hard and deserve her success. She wins big despite the system and not because of it.
Here I agree with you. The link to Yuna's score at Worlds-2013 indeed may count as another ridiculous excuse for "queeny" gold.
No, sweetheart. What is pathetic and extremele lame is your desperate attemp to 'tailor up' the real Yuna's skating at Worlds to the "planned" or "hypothetical" skating of Asada, but not to the real layout that she did. That's cheat and lie that you keep parading. Compare the hypothetical Mao with the hypothetical Yuna.
Why do you all keep refusing doing that and always go back to Yuna's skate at Worlds-2013? Because in this case, if you finally play fair and compare the hypotheticl Mao with the hypothetical Yuna, you will have to increase Yuna's score as well. Then all your math will become void the same instant.
Or are you saying that what Yuna showed us at Worlds with her juniorish combos is the maximum of her abilities? Ha! What a royalty.
Incomplete analysis? Fine. Here I am. Yuna was 4th in BV at Worlds, i.e. off the podium, behind Mao and two yesterday-junior Gold and Li. She was pulled on the podium by GOE and PCS, the scenario that we have seen a lot with PChan. Moreover, she would be 4th in BV, which is the most objective factor in scoring, at Russian Junior Nationals as well. Lol. The Olympic champion can't challenge the stuff that three junior girls at RN had power and skills to perform. Her combo of three doubles was similar to the one (2T instead of 2Lo) that Chernyshova did, who was 8th (!) RJN, but unlike Yuna she did 3Lo-2T, which has a higher BV than Yuna's 3S-2T. And, in the sight of this juniorish layout of Yuna, your conditions for Mao to beat her is to go with the heck layout with 3A, 3F-3Lo, three jump combo with first triple, etc. How fair.
And how rich of you to give Mao the chance to break 70 on PCS, while the hypothetical Yuna will have 75? 80?, since if the real one had 74 . It's exactly what happened with Chan more than once- the guys had to perform 3 quads, two 3A and still they couldn't beat the Canadian who had much easier layout, not mentioning that half of it he spent with his butt on the ice. Same with Yuna, just on a smaller scale. Way easier layout with poor BV got pulled on the top of the podium by GOE and PCS. Been there, seen that. :disapp:
Are you suggesting that other skaters dont work as hard and deserve less sucess? That is an unfair assessment. Yuna is not a poor little girl she is the top skater of the world and has acess to the best, as does mao and caro. Every skater that shows up the a competition works hard and are deseving. Some are better than other, but all work hard.
Uh... lets not go there shall we. It is a juvenile tactic to accuse me of something I have not said nor intend, as well condemn this 'figurative imagination' as if you are some how morally superior to this conclusion. Read it again, digest it properly. You are reading way too much into a simple statement, and clearly shows enough insecurity to reach the conclusion you come up with.
Juvinile is to say rules were changed to benefit one skater. Juvinile is to pretend one skater works harder than the other
What is pathetic and extremele lame is your desperate attemp to 'tailor up' the real Yuna's skating at Worlds to the "planned" or "hypothetical" skating of Asada, but not to the real layout that she did.
No, sweetheart. What is pathetic and extremele lame is your desperate attemp to 'tailor up' the real Yuna's skating at Worlds to the "planned" or "hypothetical" skating of Asada, but not to the real layout that she did. That's cheat and lie that you keep parading. Compare the hypothetical Mao with the hypothetical Yuna. Why do you all keep refusing doing that and always go back to Yuna's skate at Worlds-2013? Because in this case, if you finally play fair and compare the hypotheticl Mao with the hypothetical Yuna, you will have to increase Yuna's score as well. Then all your math will become void the same instant. Or are you saying that what Yuna showed us at Worlds with her juniorish combos is the maximum of her abilities? Ha! What a royalty. Incomplete analysis? Fine. Here I am. Yuna was 4th in BV at Worlds, i.e. off the podium, behind Mao and two yesterday-junior Gold and Li. She was pulled on the podium by GOE and PCS, the scenario that we have seen a lot with PChan. Moreover, she would be 4th in BV, which is the most objective factor in scoring, at Russian Junior Nationals as well. Lol. The Olympic champion can't challenge the stuff that three junior girls at RN had power and skills to perform. Her combo of three doubles was similar to the one (2T instead of 2Lo) that Chernyshova did, who was 8th (!) RJN, but unlike Yuna she did 3Lo-2T, which has a higher BV than Yuna's 3S-2T. And, in the sight of this juniorish layout of Yuna, your conditions for Mao to beat her is to go with the heck layout with 3A, 3F-3Lo, three jump combo with first triple, etc. How fair. And how rich of you to give Mao the chance to break 70 on PCS, while the hypothetical Yuna will have 75? 80?, since if the real one had 74 . It's exactly what happened with Chan more than once- the guys had to perform 3 quads, two 3A and still they couldn't beat the Canadian who had much easier layout, not mentioning that half of it he spent with his butt on the ice. Same with Yuna, just on a smaller scale. Way easier layout with poor BV got pulled on the top of the podium by GOE and PCS. Been there, seen that. :disapp:
os168 said:I beg to differ. With any rule changes it is should always be controversial. There are those who lose out, and those who gain considerable advantages. While it can always be justified why such for the rule change occur in the first place, but it is the totallity of these effects, and the motivation behind of these rule changes should be under greater scrutiny. Timing is everything, the effect on the major stake holders of the sport holds the clue.
Put it this way, rules changes implies there are something wrong with the old rules in the first place, and tomorow's on going changing rules can mean there's something wrong with today's rules. However in reality, it doesn't make better skating, it can however manipulate the favourable outcome of the potentikal winners.
It is possible that, PCS-wise, I am more enamored of a perfect Mao program than the judges are. To me, the floating like a butterfly thing is front and center. :yes:
Russian ladies have much superior artisty than Yuna's robotic skating with same mimic no matter what music is playing. They also have good-quality jumps and some of them like Sotnikova are much better spinners.But unlike Russian ladies, Yuna actually has some artistry, and has good-quality jumps. You're saying she should be scored similar to some Russian girls who has tiny jumps and basically are close to looking like robots when they're skating.
You can use your own words in italics as my reply.How dumb you are.
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I don't get your logic at all.
1. So the hypothetical Yuna will win over anyone hypothetical. Gotcha.1. I already provided how Yuna can maximize her TES score and then non of her competitors would be able to win over her etc, long time ago.
2. In last post, I already gave two possible TES score potential for Asada beating Yuna's in the both cases that she goes clean with a) what she did in worlds No need to repeat.
3. You purposedly ignored that Yuna is doing 3Lz+3T, 3Lz, 3F in her LP. No point to make comparison within her easier combo to others.
4. Speaking of which, some skaters need to do harder jump layout to beat some other skaters with superior techniques/ or presentation skill.
Since judging by basevalue is far from being objective in that it does not reflect how skaters actually executed tech elements at all, I will use TES.
5. But Zijun Li placed 4th in LP. Why? Because of PCS gap between her and those two were rather HUGE : -10.28 with Asada, -12.56 with Kostner.
(You see who held up by PCS now? )
I know! I mean about butterfly Mao. But infortunately I can't share your optimism regarding her PCS increasing if she skates clean, when Yuna is competing. Because there is no history to back or/and prove this claim. Mao was clean in SP at Oly, she was still lower in PCS. She was almost clean in FS at Worlds-2010 (got one <), she was still lower in PCS than Yuna with a fall and a miss of one element. Moreover, at the same event in SP where Kim was 7th with crappy skating, she was still second in PCS losing just barely (30.96/30.28). :disapp:The reason that I believe your analysis of Mao's program is incomplete is that it did not take into account the increase in PCSs that automatically follows a clean and commanding performance. Mao floats like a butterfly (PCS);
I think you can guess easily if u are figure skating fan, that competition was held right after olympic which kim had big winning, kim had advantage. So, It is not fair / proper example to guess if asada and kim go clean, would Asada surpass kim in pcs.I know! I mean about butterfly Mao. But infortunately I can't share your optimism regarding her PCS increasing if she skates clean, when Yuna is competing. Because there is no history to back or/and prove this claim. Mao was clean in SP at Oly, she was still lower in PCS. She was almost clean in FS at Worlds-2010 (got one <), she was still lower in PCS than Yuna with a fall and a miss of one element. Moreover, at the same event in SP where Kim was 7th with crappy skating, she was still second in PCS losing just barely (30.96/30.28). :disapp: